Weapon Proficiency: Improvised Weapons

[irishmagician]

To clarify this thread's purpose:

Given Gareth's amusing success using improvised weapons over the past adventure (e.g. critically hitting the eladrin in the head with a book, and other situations), I thought it would be appropriate to take a feat for level 6 that had something to do with using these things. The only one I could think of was "Weapon Proficiency," which would allow Gareth to apply his Ki Focus towards using improvised weapons (i.e. any weapon a monk is proficient in may be used with a ki focus the monk is attuned to). This essentially would allow a +2 proficiency bonus and the ki focus' enhancement bonus to be applied to attack rolls, and for the enhancement bonus to affect the damage roll as well.

In terms of the "legal-ese" of doing this, I think it is fine in my opinion. The feat in upon itself allows for additional proficiency in a single weapon, of which all improvised weapons fall into a single weapon description. Doing this also wouldn't necessarily be overpowered, as improvised weapons are pretty much the weakest weapons in the game. I believe Gersh also mentioned the possibility of this selection being underpowered for a feat, actually. If this happens to be the case, I would be happy to suggest the following as an alternative feat:

"Drunken Monkey Style: Gain proficiency in using any improvised weapon and gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls while using improvised weapons."

Thoughts?

[lordgersh]

Alright, here's what I don't want.

I don't want you being able to pick up a greatsword and toss it. A greatsword is a weapon you aren't proficient in, and one that isn't a thrown weapon anyway.

I don't want you to be able to lift up a bookcase (with books) and hurl it without some sort of check or balance to it.

So, try this on for wording:

Improvised Throwing:
Gain a +2 Proficiency Bonus to Ranged Attacks with Improvised Weapons. You may add your Ki Focus Enhancement Bonus to these attacks. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat, you may increase the damage you do with Improvised Ranged Weapons to 1d6. You may not use a weapon you are not trained in as an Improvised Weapon.

Subject to my discretion, anything larger than handheld (a Chair, for instance) you may have to make a Strength check to be able to throw.

This would actually be fairly simple to program into MapTool, I think, too.

[Zguy]

That sounds pretty fair. And I agree that the use of an actual weapon as an "Improvised Weapon" would definitely unbalance this feat quickly.

I like the increase to 1d6 on the damage roll. That makes this a little more balanced. All in all, I still think it's a little underpowered for a feat, but given how often Sean is likely to use it - it's a good choice.

I would recommend however, changing the name to "Jackie Chan Style". Seeing as he uses improvised weapons in pretty much every movie he's ever been in. Hell, I remember him fighting with a Ladder in two movies!

[irishmagician]

I agree with most of what you have said, Gersh, with a couple exceptions:

-Using improvised weapons in melee. Should this be included in the feat? I do not think Gareth COULD abuse it, as his unarmed strike deals more damage. But I could see its use, for example, against a monster coated in acidic slime.

-Strength checks to use larger improvised weapons. This is more of a clarification rather than a disagreement. Gareth has no strength (i.e. 10), as he uses Dexterity via Melee Training for his melee basic attacks. Would it be more appropriate to ask for Dexterity checks instead to use larger objects, as he would not be using his force of strength to manipulate them? Just curious.

[lordgersh]

Reverse Order:

RE: Strength Checks. It depends on the situation. If you're throwing something smaller than, say, a shield, there's probably no check involved, and you can use your Dex to make the attack roll, certainly. If you want to throw a table, I need you to make a strength check to throw the table. I'm trying to think of a situation that you're dealing with a large object and I could justify a Dex check instead of a Str check and I can't.

The way I view Melee Training is that you've learned to make your basic, opprotunity, etc, attacks with finesse rather than force (or precision [int] or caution [wis] or feinting [cha], etc). To pick up a table and toss it, you still need Strength.

Fair point on the improvised in melee. Though if you want to hit someone with a table, well, that could be a whole different kettle of fish.

New Wording:

Improvisational Style:
(Heroic, Monk)
Gain a +2 Proficiency Bonus to Attacks with Improvised Weapons. You may add your Ki Focus Enhancement Bonus to these attacks. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat, you may increase the damage you do with Improvised Weapons to 1d6. You may not use a weapon you are not trained in as an Improvised Weapon.